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Post by Revenge on Aug 24, 2009 22:47:10 GMT 2
Buenas, he buscado y no he encontrado un tema parecido a este, o donde se comente, si he buscado mal porfavor, me cierran el tema o me corrigen.
Quisiera preguntar, vuestras teorías sobre si los aliens defecan... Como muchos sabemos, los Aliens deben alimentarte, aunque puedan vivir sin ello... Y la pregunta es.. ¿Creeis que los Aliens, o Xenomorphos, como querais llamarlos, defecan? Es decir, hacen caca? e incluso pipí?
Yo peronalmente creo que deben hacerlo, ya que cualquier organismo que se alimente a base organica, tiene que cagar XD
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Post by Acheron on Aug 24, 2009 22:58:17 GMT 2
Mmmm, pues la verdad es buena pregunta  Pues como ya en dos peliculas de la saga se les ha visto comer, pues se podria decir, que de alguna forma o otra queda confirmado que ha veces comen materia organica... ...y pues es cierto, no existe una eficiencia del 100 % y pues por lo tanto habra ciertas cosas que no podran llegar ha asimilar  y deberan de desecharlo de alguna manera... ...mm una teoria loca, y es que podrian llegar a eliminar esos residuos con su acido fluorhídrico que tienen como sangre...y los subproductos de esta reacción (mayoritariamente Hidrogeno y otros gases residuales de la reacción quimica) salieran por los tubos de la espalda Loka eehh? la teoria (Ahora recuerdo que el Runner no tiene tubos , buee un pequeño cabo sin atar todavia ;D) ...no obstante seria inevitable que quedaran algun tipo de subproductos liquidos o semiliquidos que habria que expulsarlos de la manera "tradicional" |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 24, 2009 23:31:50 GMT 2
como todo ser vivo:
nace, crece, se reproduce y muere
se alimenta y defeca
es lo mismo
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Post by Tony03600 on Aug 24, 2009 23:49:06 GMT 2
Yo tengo otra teria loca y esque pienso que su organismo expulsa los residuos mediante sudor. No sudor como el nuestro, pero en todas las peliculas de aliens podemos ver como siempre estan enbueltos como en una especie de baba sudorosa. Pues bien esa baba pienso que deve ser su forma de "defecar" por asi llamarlo o de que su organismo se libre de impurezas y siempre he pensado que esa baba brotaba de los tubos de la espalda pero claro con el runner tenemos una excepcion... quiza la expulse por otra via.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 25, 2009 2:07:48 GMT 2
Yo tengo otra teria loca y esque pienso que su organismo expulsa los residuos mediante sudor. No sudor como el nuestro, pero en todas las peliculas de aliens podemos ver como siempre estan enbueltos como en una especie de baba sudorosa. Pues bien esa baba pienso que deve ser su forma de "defecar" por asi llamarlo o de que su organismo se libre de impurezas y siempre he pensado que esa baba brotaba de los tubos de la espalda pero claro con el runner tenemos una excepcion... quiza la expulse por otra via. mmmm..... por poros? |
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Post by Drole on Aug 25, 2009 3:04:34 GMT 2
o tambien podria soltar desechos por acido que cada sierto tiempo nesesita expulsar ya sea escupiendo o vomitando  
Ademas de que no es algo que le depare mucho esfuerzo
y podria seguir cazando ;D |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 25, 2009 22:41:06 GMT 2
jaja buen tema, pues yo digo que si, pero en las figuras de aliens no se ha visto que tengan ano, quizas los aliens sean como las medusas que su boca tiene funcion de recto tambien y defequen por ahi, y ahora que lo mencionan en avp(si  me cuesta trabajo citar como canonico algo visto en esa pelicula que odio) en avp el scar ese cuando esta en el nido con alexa se agacha para tocar una baba muy rara y mas solida que se ve muy distinta a lo que seria baba comun quiza eso sea mierd*a de alien y no me extrañaria que lo fuera pues anderson defeco mucho en avp, yo digo que ahi una prueba de shlt de los aliens. que asco!!! y no le habra dado asco tocar esa mimimierdd..... |
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Post by Hiena on Aug 27, 2009 6:44:26 GMT 2
Claro, esa baba es más espesa que otras vistas de los aliens. Tal vez es como mencionas y son como las medusas. Ya que sería lo más lógico porque no se los ha visto hacer otra cosa parecida a defecar o algo así. Ahora que lo pienso, si el excremento alien es como baba pero más consistente, no será de eso con lo que hacen el nido?  . Se las dejo así lo piensan, jeje. |
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Post by Revenge on Aug 27, 2009 16:03:36 GMT 2
Jaja, atrevido! es una marranada, pero puede ser, quizás con lo que hagan los nidos es con eso, porque yo no me explico de que manera sacan tanto material de ese asi para hacer un nido... Quien sabe, es uno de los muchos misterios de la biologia Xenomorph.
Y es muy acertado eso que dices dallas... La baba esa más espesa puede ser su manera de "defecar" no? Que barbaridad...
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Post by Acheron on Aug 27, 2009 16:36:26 GMT 2
Mmm, pues podria ser...pero yo pienso que esta baba más espesa es simplemente, lo mismo, baba de la misma que siempre, pero que ha perdido humedad y por eso se ha espesado...
En cuanto a lo del material de la construcción de colmenas, tal vez en Anchorpoint Essays se encuentre algo...
Aqui un poco de info extraido de dicha pagina...
Resin and Composition
The material used to construct a hive is generally agreed to be a secreted resin, of organic origin. Whether it is regurgitated, another form of excretion (such as waist material), a residual build up of the viscous fluid that tends to cover the alien, or a residual build up of the aliens' salivary fluids is unclear. It is also unclear what this resin is composed of. Initial thoughts were of a silicon-based material, perhaps a form of silicate waste brought on via respiration in oxygenated environments. (see the Blood Essay for more on this). However, the resin appears to be able to withstand the alien's corrosive fluids, and if the working model of a hydrofluoric acid-like substance is accurate then a silicon-based material would quickly succumb to the effects of such a fluid. Hydrofluoric acid reacts with alarming virulence when in contact with silicon. In laboratory use it is one of the few acids that cannot be contained within a glass vessel because of its reactive nature to silicon (see the Blood Essay for more on Hydrofluoric Acid).
Fluoro-Collagen Variant
There are currently three working theories as to what the secreted resin is composed of. The first is that the resin may be similar to a proposed theory regarding the alien's exoskeleton. The resin may be a collagen mimic - specifically a hyper-stable fluorinated collagen variant. Based on events recorded aboard the USCSS Nostromo and on LV-426 the resin's overall appearance seems to remain consistent with crystalline collagen, and if this protein is already being heavily employed within he alien's own physiology it is possible that it could be employed elsewhere. (see the Exoskeleton Essay for more information on the potential use of collagen in the alien's exoskeleton). Collagen also has broad-range biocompatibility, allowing it to exist in, and with, a wide range of organisms and environments with little risk of toxicity. And being a non-pollutant, as well as biodegradable, it offers benefits to ecosystems.
It's physical properties in the use of cocooning hosts also seems consistent with excreted collagen - such as that seen in terrestrial muscles when anchoring to boats, rocks, pylons, and the similar out-croppings. On LV-426 it was noted that the resin holding Rebecca Jorden had only partially solidified, thereby allowing Lt. Ripley to break it away and free the young girl. Areas of the cocooning resin were still in a semi-liquid state. It's believed that had the resin had further time to solidify Lt. Ripley may not have been able to free the girl. Byssal, the form of collagen excreted by muscles to form anchoring byssal threads also has its start as a viscous fluid. As it hardens its anchoring strength increases, and as the number of byssal threads multiplies the strength of the anchoring mass increases. (see the Exoskeleton Essay for more on this) It's believed that once the alien's resin is completely solid it is able to withstand stressors of extreme intensity. It was recorded that when the USCM APC was driven through a resin barrier, on LV-426, that the alien structure not only caused structural damage to the vehicle, but crumbled in surprisingly large pieces - which remains consistent with a material of a tight molecular bonding and/or a dense crystalline matrix. The large irregular pieces indicate few overall fractures, and few areas of structural weakness. It also indicates a complex molecular structure. Generally, the manner in which a material fractures and splits is directly related to the manner in which its molecular structure is arranged - both in formation and the elements that form its binds. Due to collagen's unique and tight coil it is able to withstand a great deal of physical stress, making it an extremely durable protein.
However, the working theory regarding the alien's exoskeleton relies on the presence of iron to aid in its solidification, and resulting strength. It's likely that much of this iron would be gained through gestation. However, it is unclear as to how iron could be incorporated in sufficient quantities to offer the same structural benefits to the hive resin. This would ultimately mean that the resin may not be able to maintain the same tensile strength as exhibited on LV-426.
Biological Slurry
The second theory has its origins in the heat that fills the alien hive. Through this theory it is believed that the hive structure is something other than just the protein that I. raptus employs for the development of its exoskeleton. The resin's origins may be in the same protein, but it's believed that resin may "grow" of its own accord over time, allowing the hive to expand and increase in size and capacity. Which means that the material excreted by I. raptus may be a biological slurry containing heavy concentrations of single celled organisms, and/or enzymes, which would aid in the further creation of hive material. Considering the efficiency of the creature, both in life cycle and physiology, the idea of allowing the hive to essentially create itself seems to almost naturally follow suit. This is not to say that the alien does not actively take part in the creation and maintenance of the hive, it's believed that it does, but current theories suggest that this activity may be relegated to initial construction, the new construction of large portions, or large-scale routine maintenance/repair. It is believed that these single celled organisms and/or enzymes, then play an active role in the creation of additional protein matter via metabolic processing and pathways. It isn't clear if these processes rely on material from the environment to form additional proteins, or if they are able to produce the necessary proteins internally.
The nature of such single celled organisms is still uncertain. It has been suggested that they may be anything from aggressive and biologically virulent, to more innocuous benign organisms. These suggestions rely on the fact that the relative temperature maintained within a hive structure is high enough to sustain high levels of active growth and reproduction of such organisms. And it's considered likely that the temperature within the hive serves more than to aid in hive expansion, but to help maintain a brood's egg collection as well as aid in the rate of exoskeletal development (see the Exoskeleton Essay for more on this).
Using Native Biological Organisms
However, looking beyond the heat within the hive, and taking into consideration other aspects of the hive's environment - such as humidity levels, air movement, and quality of air - additional thoughts began to arise. Specifically with regard to the high level of bacteria that would be present in the nursery as the number of spent host bodies increases. With the high degree of humidity and stagnant air the nursery would quickly become a breeding ground for more than just alien young. Bacteria, molds, mildews, and other fungi would quickly take up residence and spread with an alarming rate. Creating an environment that would be toxic to nearly any creature that entered the chamber and outlying passageways. Over time the entire hive could become a festering cesspool of bacteria, fungi, and fungal spores. This idea spawned a new line of thought about how the hive itself may be constructed. Specifically, that it may "grow," or expand, on its own over time using native bacteria and fungi as a vehicle for expansion. The biological agents responsible for this are, as of yet, still unknown. But two separate theories have come about regarding this.
Hydrocarbon Compounds that incorporate fluorine (an element known to be present in the aliens' physiology) are somewhat uncommon in standard classified biological life. Currently, they are found only in a very few terrestrial - as well as extraterrestrial - microbes and plants, as well as a few species of extra-terrestrial mold. Some terrestrial plants are known to produce fluoroacetic acid: a very effective metabolic toxin, which is used as a defense mechanism against various grazing animals. And fluoropolymers , are not considered to be naturally occurring outside of the theoretical scope of I. raptus (See the Exoskeleton Essay for more on this). Which means that it may be one of the first organisms capable of self propagation that is able to naturally construct, and incorporate, fluoropolymers within it's own biology. However, being that fluorine is topologically similar to hydrogen (with regard to molecular shape, and therefore biological recognition) it can have a similar molecular impact: it can often replace hydrogen without causing widespread molecular reformation. So, it is considered a possibility that the alien's resin, when excreted, consists of fluorosacchrides or fluoroglycerides, which would then be consumed by bacteria native to the hive's location. These compounds would likely not digest within bacteria the way their non-fluorine bearing cousins would, and it's here that it is believed the resinous excretions expand.
Assuming the secretions contain a given fluorosacchride, which upon glycolysis, forms the necessary monomers to form a Polytetrafluoroethylene-like polymer. There by allowing the hive structure to remain relatively impervious to the alien's own corrosive internal fluids. These monomers are not biologically active, and amass in the bacteria as it grows, until a given critical point is reached. At which time the monomers conjugate, expanding in a manner similar to a foam sealant, and lysising the bacteria. The natural division process of the bacteria is to form colony mats, and so the expansion would mirror this.
In order to prevent the process from terminating after only one layer of bacteria, it's thought that the lysis of each bacteria releases a nutrient medium, allowing new bacteria to affix and continue the process. This medium would largely be based on the nature of the natively affecting bacteria. This process would continue: building upon the original secretion until all possible nutrient medium is absorbed, limiting the expansion potential to a given original quantity of nutrient medium introduced when the alien first secretes the resin. This effectively sets control of the expansion potential entirely on the alien, but allows the chaotic patterns of local bacterial growth to shape propagation vectors of the hive expansion.
After all of the founding bacteria are utilized, a new biological niche is present on the surface of the hardened substrate that, while nutrient deficient, still offers an area for more independent bacteria to reside: specifically those of a decomposer group. Once a supply of decomposing organic material is present, these bacteria can begin to proliferate. This organic decomposing material would be the spent host bodies found in the nursery.
This theory offers further potential to the hive and the aliens with regard to expanding the aliens' sensory range and abilities. A common trait found among bacteria is a pillus, an extension of the cellular wall, which is used in locomotion, as well as other purposes. Various bacteria will link together, extracellularly, via these pili. Because the cell walls of bacteria bear a slight charge, they form a conductive pathway. This (combined with oxidative nature of chemical metabolism) is the basis of biological fuel cells. Sheets of these bacteria, spread over the semi-conductive layer of resin, would form a rather unique material for electrical signal conduction. Thereby allowing the alien to extend its sensory abilities to include a much larger area than it's own immediate location within the hive. Essentially, any living organism that is in contact with, or close proximity to, the hardened resin would "transmit" a bioelectric charge along the conductive pathways of bacteria. Basically, the organism's own bioelectric emissions would be picked-up and carried over these pathways allowing nearly any alien with in the hive to know the exact position, direction of movement (if applicable), state of distress (or calm), and relative size of any other organism in the hive - be it alien, or otherwise. It should also be noted that the eggs are physically connected to this network as well. It is possible that eggs could translate hive wall sensory information into useful pheromonal cues for the hive, as well as translate conductive pathway information to the facehugger within. Thereby allowing Stage I I. raptus to have access to sensory input that could be used in host detection. This, coupled with the resin's piezoelelectric properties (which would allow the hive walls to provide tactile and auditory vibration detection) may explain the alien's apparent lack of response When the USCM detachment initially entered the hive on LV-426. It may also explain the sudden, and organized, response that occurred once the attack began. It's felt that the alien may exploit curiosity in its prey, by allowing it to enter a hive structure - should the opportunity arise. Having the hive structure operate as an extension of the aliens' sensory abilities would allow the aliens to perceive when an organism has entered the hive, where it is, and when it is far enough into the structure to attack and not risk having it escape. It also offers the ability to coordinate an attack with extreme precision. Since each responding alien within a brood would be aware of where the intruding organisms are in the hive, as well as where other members of the brood are in relation to themselves and the intruding organisms. This type of biological arrangement could offer the alien an extreme tactical advantage over nearly any intruding organism.
It should be noted here that it is believed that under this theory the aliens may be able to also use the hive for purposes of communication. It's believed that I. raptus may be able to create subtle fluctuations within it's own bioelectromagnetic output as a means of communication. This theory first came about when considering the Queen's over-sized cowl. Using the potential conductivity of the hive structure members of a brood would be able to effectively communicate, and pass on communication, throughout a hive to more efficiently respond to intruding organisms. And as the Queen is affixed to the hive structure this would allow her the ability to not only communicate, but also become aware of nearly all activity within the hive - be that activity be alien or otherwise. This may also explain how the Queen was able to reportedly "order" eggs to respond to the presence of Lt. Ellen Ripley while on LV-426. (see the Communication Essay for more on this).
"Build as you go"
There is an older, and third, theory regarding hive development, and that is I. raptus is directly responsible for the construction of all portions of the hive structure via the excretion of said resin. This theory is the initial theory put forth regarding hive construction, and even though it is an increasingly accepted belief that the hive expands on its own (to a certain degree), there are those within the scientific community that still hold to the notion that the alien is directly responsible to any and all hive construction. And until further data is acquired about hive construction and expansion, and what the resin is composed of this theory is still considered an equally viable option.
Proponents of this theory do not adhere to the notion that the hive aids in bioelectric sensory input, and feel that any sensory input is strictly relegated to tactile and auditory vibration. Which means that the aliens would only be aware of given areas around them at any one time. Tactile and auditory vibrations are limited by intensity, and the composition of the material they travel through. The piezoelelectric properties of a crystalline substrate can offer a greater range of dispersion for vibrations before they diffuse, however they are still limited by the intensity of the source and the nature of the substrate.
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Post by Hiena on Aug 28, 2009 5:48:24 GMT 2
Me he leído esa info dos veces . No, ni medio entiendo ;D. Mi inglés no da para tanto. A ver si le pido ayuda a google aunque a veces me dice cualquier cosa en lugar de lo que es ;D. Sí, de lo poco que entendi(si es que lo entendí bien) es como tú dices Dallas. Tal vez esa saliva regurgitada en realidad sea su excremento y lo usen como material de construcción. Y tal vez hagan el nido con mezcla de ambos, o sea baba y excremento. |
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predatormig2
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I'm ?PREDATORMIG2? (con mayusculas)
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Post by predatormig2 on Aug 28, 2009 19:51:40 GMT 2
viendo como a avanzado el tema es logico que, como algunos usuarios han comentado, su excremento se baba (no digamos que tengaque ser ajuro espesa ) pero suena logico que los xenos construyan con su baba y con material biologico encontrado sus colmenas, tal y como se ven en los comics y pelis. Otro punto es que hasta donde hemos visto, los xenos no tienen ano , y lo mas logico es que su oraganismo aproveche la materia organica para las labores del xeno y que practicamente lo que usen como material de construccion no sea exactamente desecho, pero como lo expulsa su cuerpo de esa manera si sele consideraria asi . en fin talvez la respuesta sea que el desecho de los xenos sea inplantado a proposito por sus creadores (ya sean SJ o Yautjas como algunos dicen ) para que puedan hacer sus nidos, y que su organismo aprovecho la materia que no se deseche para el crecimiento del xeno (basandonos en la teoria de que el pretoriano y posiblemente la reina vengan de ser zanganos). |
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aipkeeena
Honorable Moderator 
el dia que termine el fic , dejare mi mayor legado en ésta vida
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Post by aipkeeena on Aug 28, 2009 22:13:28 GMT 2
pues tenga ò no ano , yo creo que si no se lo pusieron fue poruqe no todos los diseñadores de monstruos se ocupan de èstos detalles biologicois , aparte no se veria puesto que la larga cola lo cubriria , asi que para que molestarse en ese pequeño detalle?  ;D por otro lado , si poseen intestinos ò algo que se le parezca a èstos animales, puesto que en avp1 (que a mi si me gusta) , se muestra a un xeno muerto en donde sus "intestinos " quedan expuestos que comienzan a corroer el suelo donde se ecnuentra , eso podria suponer una gran irrigacion de sangre tal y como sucede en un aparato digestivo. yo creo que la baba muy espesa podria ser defecacion , tal y como expuso dallas mas arriba , aunque tambien no creo que los productores en las pelis se ocuen de èstos detalles , aunque uno podria imaginar que la colmena puede tener sitios para realizar los desechos, como sucede en hormigueros ò colmenas de abejas |
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y deberan de desecharlo de alguna manera...
me cuesta trabajo citar como canonico algo visto en esa pelicula que odio) en avp el scar ese cuando esta en el nido con alexa se agacha para tocar una baba muy rara y mas solida que se ve muy distinta a lo que seria baba comun quiza eso sea mierd*a de alien 
. Se las dejo así lo piensan, jeje.
;D